API Evangelist Conversation with Tim Lane

Hello there, my name’s Kin Lane, I’m the API Evangelist. Welcome to the second episode of my new podcast, API Evangelist Conversations. This is my new podcast to try to continue what I was doing with Breaking Changes at Postman, but have conversations with folks, API producers and consumers, who are doing interesting things within the enterprise. The first episode, I just interviewed myself, a little awkward, a little stiff, just trying to work out the kinks when it comes to producing and distributing this podcast. Now for the second episode here, this pilot, there’s an important aspect of API Evangelist Conversations I want to convey. The show is an extension of my work that I did as API Evangelist. A large portion of my conversations were off the record. I would have a conversation with someone and then I would anonymize them and write a blog post. Similarly at Postman, when I did Breaking Changes, I ended up having a lot of conversations that couldn’t end up getting on the record and actually being part of the show. And so with this new podcast, I want to provide an option to my guests. You can be on the record, which is just a straight-up regular podcast, or you can be off the record, and I’ll obfuscate you and your voice using AI, and you still get to be part of the podcast, and you still get to have a blog post and be part of the overall narrative record. So let’s see if I can actually pull this off. This show is meant to allow me to figure out that obfuscation part. How am I going to use AI to actually hide my guest and see if I can make all of this work? Who knows, it may not work in the end. I have no evidence that people are going to even want to come on off the record, but from a theatrical point of interview, I figured I would give it a shot, and I think it’s a really interesting aspect of how I might be able to pull the show off. So let’s see what we can make happen here. All right, who are you?

I’m Tim Lane.

And what is your role?

I’m a software engineer.

And where do you work?

I work for Acme Corporation.

What industry?

I work in the circus and entertainment industry.

So are you an API producer, consumer, service provider, other?

I produce and consume APIs. I wouldn’t say I’m good at it, but probably better than most. I take the time to think about the business and technology of an API, and I slow down enough to put on the hat of my API consumers. I like a simple API. I don’t like it when mine get too big and bloated. I prefer to keep them separate and modular, unless they work together to accomplish a specific business objective. I take care to make sure my APIs are intuitive and easy to understand, because I have used a lot of APIs in my career, and I do not want people to go through the pain and suffering that I have gone through over the years.

Why do APIs matter?

They are an easy way to make data available. I don’t have to learn a lot about or care about your back end or the programming languages that you use. APIs make it easy for me to provide data, code, and other resources inside and outside my company in many different applications. API gateways make it easy to do the authentication, rate limiting, and other things I don’t like to do over and over with each API I build. So I really like being the guy who can create easy, simple-to-use APIs that can be used in any way you like in any type of application. The best part of all of this is I don’t have to do front-end work.

Are APIs a priority with your leadership?

On the surface they are, and in word they are, but they really don’t have a clue why they matter or what they do. I guess I need to do a better job of educating them. I also need to convince them to invest more in educating business teams on why APIs matter and how they work. Right now API-first is just a buzzword that you have to say or people think you sound stupid, but honestly there isn’t much behind it other than talk. If I asked anyone to walk me through what API meant, nobody would be able to do it, I’m sure. You catch me on a bad day, I probably can’t articulate it either.

What is your biggest challenge with APIs?

Well, just carving out the time to do them right. I have such a huge workload as well as a full calendar of meetings, and in a company that doesn’t really value self-service, and I’m under an immense and often unrealistic amount of pressure to deliver new products and features. If I could just get 25% more time without meetings, I could move mountains when it comes to the consistency, quality, and reliability of my APIs. Instead, I find myself cutting corners on documentation, examples, and other resources that would save consumers of my APIs time and money. And since most of my APIs are used within my own company, this would save us a lot of time and a lot of money.

Why do you think people don’t care about APIs?

People just take them for granted, kind of like electricity or water. They just expect them to work, and then when they don’t, they don’t really think much about it until they get their bill. I don’t think people see APIs when they’re viewing a dashboard in their work or swiping through their Instagram feed. They see the end result of those API resources, but I don’t think they often associate this with anything. I don’t think they ever think much about it. People tend to be aware of the, just unaware of the number of APIs that they depend on each day, let alone who makes those APIs and how those APIs are shaping their world. Honestly, I think even if they did know more, like me, they still wouldn’t be given all the time they need to think about it. They just don’t have the time in their day or the priorities to properly pay attention to APIs.

Do you work with REST APIs?

Yes, that’s all I work with. One team I was on for a while was experimenting with GraphQL, but I’ve never actually seen it put into production. I would say my APIs are almost always REST, or whatever that means. I read one time on Leonard Richardson’s level, whatever, REST and hypermedia, but it really seemed like too much for me. I just use HTTP to make JSON available via different paths. I keep it simple, man. I do try to keep things plain language using resources, I use my HTTP methods, and I put a lot of thought into how I expose different resources, capabilities, and other algorithms, but honestly I don’t sweat it too much. I just think a simple HTTP API will win out over any type of API just because it’s really cheap and easy to use.

Do you use OpenAPI?

I do. I started using it to generate Redoc documentation, and now I’m using it to generate SDKs. I think I’ve also imported them into Postman to generate Postman collections. I’ve even begun hand editing them to improve on them. I wouldn’t say I’m design-first, as I depend on the Amazon API Gateway to generate my OpenAPI for me, but I do spend a lot of time cleaning it up and improving the design of it so it looks better in documentation. It is handy for also sharing with people who use my API. Like I said, most of my API consumers are internal in my company, and I find it really useful for answering their questions. I just give them an OpenAPI most of the time and they go away.

What is the most interesting part of your job?

Solving problems, actually solving the problem for whoever is using my API. I see understanding their request as a kind of puzzle. I love it when they give me requirements and tell me their story, and I’m able to come back with something that reflects what they need. I like learning how people who need a piece in web, mobile, or even now artificial intelligence applications, how they see a piece of data, algorithms, and other things that I can make available. I like it when I get to produce an API but also consume other APIs as part of the process. You have to be mindful of your dependencies, but API orchestration always makes for a really cool puzzle, keeps me interested.

Can you share what book you’re reading right now?

I’m reading a book on artificial intelligence, A History of Natural Intelligence, Thinking with Machines from Descartes to the Digital Age. It’s written by David W. Bates. Not really excited about the whole AI thing like everyone else, but I enjoy reading about how we got to where we’re at, both the technology side but also just what we think intelligence is, let alone artificial intelligence. A lot of what we collectively believe about artificial intelligence, it comes from a lot of really messed up concepts involved with religion, white supremacy, and colonialism. I’m more interested in why people are so interested in AI than I’m interested in AI itself. I actually think there’s a lot more there to talk about than what API does for me as a software developer.

Well, I appreciate you coming by.

No, that’s cool, thank you. I appreciate not being on the record and being able to be a little more honest and straight up, even without the permission of my company.

No problem. All right, well, that was pretty interesting. Hopefully it turns into a decent enough interview. I’m going to play around with obfuscating my guest’s voice as well as visually, and see if I can’t do a proper off-the-record interview and still keep it like the other interviews and adding value to the overall conversation. We’ll see if I can pull it off. And for episode three, I’m going to dive right into actually having guests, and we’ll make it a little bit more interesting, I promise. Well, thanks for joining me, and we’ll see you next time.